Legislature(2011 - 2012)CAPITOL 106
01/19/2012 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB182 | |
| HB216 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 182 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 216 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HB 182-ELECTRONIC DISTRIBUTION OF AGENCY REPORTS
8:10:51 AM
CHAIR LYNN announced that the first order of business was HOUSE
BILL NO. 182, "An Act relating to distribution of annual reports
by state agencies."
8:11:38 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN, as sponsor, offered a review of HB 182,
which was previously heard and held by the committee on 4/12/11.
He relayed that existing statute, which requires state agencies
to publish an annual report on paper, not only creates piles of
paper on legislators' desks, but also costs the State of Alaska
an estimated $1.5-$2 million a year. Representative Johansen
said he would like to amend the original bill version to strike
the word "annual" from the bill, which would make it possible
for other, non-annual reports required by law to be generated
electronically. He said the commissioner of each department
would be responsible for granting requests for money to pay for
hard copy reports. He noted that state law requires four copies
of everything be sent to the Alaska State Library; therefore,
the public can request electronic or paper copies. In response
to Chair Lynn, he confirmed that the next committee of referral
was the House Finance Committee, and he said that committee
would look at the numbers.
8:18:24 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he likes the concept of the bill. He
noted that Representative Johansen had said that under HB 182, a
director of a division would have to seek the approval of the
commissioner of that department in order to spend money to
generate paper copies of reports. He directed attention to page
1, line 11, which read as follows:
An agency may not produce print copies of annual
reports unless requested under AS 44.99.370.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said that seems to refer to an individual
requesting a printed copy. He expressed concern that the
revenue source book, which he said is published twice a year and
is needed, would fall under the proposed legislation. He asked
the bill sponsor if he foresees flexibility for the commissioner
or department or if the aforementioned language would prohibit
distribution [of paper copies of reports] unless there is a
request from an individual.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN replied that the intent is to allow
flexibility while requiring accountability. He said he does not
want agencies to request money from the legislature for printing
costs solely because statute requires them to do so. He said he
is open to amending the proposed legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he appreciates that, and he suggested
that the language on page 1, line 11, may need amending.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN pointed out that a document that is
slated for printing is often created on a computer; therefore,
it is already in a format that can easily be accessed.
8:21:55 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN suggested that an additional saving
under HB 182 would be that the state would no longer have the
expense of mailing the reports.
CHAIR LYNN noted that the state would also no longer have to pay
the staff that sorts the mail.
8:22:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN shared that he received a report from a
department with both a bulk mail permit printed on it and
postage affixed to it. He surmised that the money saved under
HB 182 could be better used by legislators for issues dear to
them.
8:23:44 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN moved to adopt Amendment 1, [which was
subsequently split into Amendments 1a through 1e, the text for
which is provided as it correlates with the ensuing discussion].
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG objected for the purpose of discussion.
8:24:33 AM
ALAN BIRNBAUM, Chief Assistant Attorney General - Statewide
Supervisor, Information and Project Section, Civil Division
(Anchorage), Department of Law (DOL), stated that his comments
would be on the original bill version. He said electronically
submitted annual reports would be available to the public more
quickly than reports printed on paper. He indicated that the
five parts of Amendment 1 were recommended by the department.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG requested that the five parts of
Amendment 1 be moved individually, and he suggested they be
referred to as Amendments 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, and 1e.
MR. BIRNBAUM referred to Amendment 1a, which read as follows
[original punctuation provided]:
Page 1, line 12:
Delete "reports unless requested under AS
44.99.370"
Insert "reports, except as
(1) required
(A) under AS 14.56.120;
(B) by agreement; or
(C) by federal law; or
(2) requested under AS 44.99.370."
MR. BIRNBAUM emphasized that none of the exceptions would
detract from the purpose of the bill, which is to provide annual
reports to the public more quickly and to save the state
resources. He said the exception for AS 14.56.120 recognizes
that annual reports should continue to be treated the same as
other state publications. Under AS 14.56.120, he said, state
agencies are required to provide four copies of their state
publications to the State Library distribution and data access
center, and the center may request additional copies. He said
state publications include state agencies' annual reports. Mr.
Birnbaum indicated that Amendment 1a would ensure that in cases
where an agreement or federal law requires printed copy, such as
a pre-electronic agreement or federal law that has not been
updated, a conflict between the proposed legislation and the
agreement or federal law would be avoided.
8:27:58 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN stated his support of Amendment 1a.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG offered his understanding that a "list
of inclusion" would be necessary, which he said would be
cumbersome.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN emphasized his interest is not in the
way the bill is drafted, but in its end result.
8:31:07 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG read an excerpt from a memorandum from
Mr. Birnbaum, dated 1/18/12, which read as follows [original
punctuation provided]:
This amendment would insure that the State Library
Distribution and Data Access Center continues to
receive copies for the public to review, as required
by statute, as well as insure that there are no
conflicts with federal law or agreements entered into
by the state.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG noted that [Amendment 1a] does not
include state law in its exceptions.
8:32:13 AM
MR. BIRNBAUM responded that [the department] would not want to
undercut the focus of the bill to eliminate the mass printing of
annual reports and the resulting substantial cost to the state.
He said he does not know that language could not be drafted that
would accommodate Representative Gruenberg's concern, but he
said he does know that under AS 44.99.370, the public would be
able to request free copies of the annual reports from the data
access center.
8:33:08 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said AS 14.56.120 refers to the Alaska
State Library, which is where the reports are sent. In response
to Representative Gruenberg's remarks about state law being part
of exemptions, he remarked that including all state laws in the
exemption would eviscerate the bill.
8:33:45 AM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON echoed the bill sponsor's remarks about
the effect of including state law in the exemption in Amendment
1a.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG suggested a separate section in the
bill to direct the reviser to eliminate the requirements under
state law that would conflict with the proposed legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said he thinks that is probably a good
idea; however, he said he would like to move the bill along
today and look to the House Finance Committee to deal with that.
CHAIR LYNN concurred.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said that would satisfy him.
8:35:53 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON recommended adding "or specifically
approved by the commissioner of the department", which he said
would give the commissioner the flexibility to take ownership
and responsibility to approve distribution when it was important
to do so.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said he supports that.
8:37:04 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to adopt a conceptual amendment to
Amendment 1a, to insert "or specifically approved by the
commissioner of the department", following AS 44.99.370. There
being no objection, it was so ordered.
8:37:53 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG removed his objection to Amendment 1a,
as amended. There being no further objection, Amendment 1a, as
amended, was adopted.
8:38:17 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN moved to adopt Amendment 1b, which read
as follows [original punctuation provided]:
Page 1, line 13:
Delete "(b) Notwithstanding conflicting
provisions of law"
Insert "(b) Except as provided in (a) of this
section"
There being no objection, Amendment 1b was adopted.
8:38:29 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN moved to adopt Amendment 1c, which read
as follows [original punctuation provided]:
Page 1, line 14:
Following "obligation in":
Insert "state"
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG objected for the purpose of discussion.
He questioned whether "in law" means in state law.
8:39:15 AM
MR. BIRNBAUM explained that the department wanted "law" to be
clarified as meaning state law.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG removed his objection. There being no
further objection, Amendment 1c was adopted.
8:40:10 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN moved to adopt Amendment 1d, which read
as follows [original punctuation provided]:
Page 2, lines 1-5:
Delete all material and insert:
"Sec. 44.99.370. Print copy requests. A
person may obtain a print copy of an annual report
from the state library distribution and data access
center under AS 14.56.170."
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG objected for the purpose of discussion.
MR. BIRNBAUM explained that Amendment 1d would simplify statute,
by providing a central agency from which anyone could obtain a
report. Anyone without access to the Internet would be able to
get copies of reports.
8:42:00 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG removed his objection.
8:42:10 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if, under Amendment 1d, there would
be a fee charged for copies of reports.
MR. BIRNBAUM relayed that regulation 4 AAC 57.910(a)(4) covers
requests for services, and there is typically a fee: 10 cents
per page for self service and 10 cents per page, plus $20 per
hour for photo copying by division personnel. The same
regulation allows the director of the Division of Libraries,
Archives, and Museums to waive fees if he/she determines that
doing so would be in the public's interest.
8:43:51 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said he has a problem shifting production
costs from the agencies to the general public. He then
emphasized the importance of using a color printer for certain
reports, such as those with multi-colored pie charts, and he
said many people do not have color printers. He expressed
concern that the library would have to use color printers to
make copies of those reports.
8:47:11 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN suggested that there are alternatives to
using color, and he said he has faith that any state agency
could generate reports that would be readable from a black and
white printer.
8:49:30 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN offered his understanding that the
manner by which the public can attain copies of reports is not
going to be changed.
8:50:03 AM
LINDA THIBODEAU, Director, Libraries, Archives & Museums,
Department of Education & Early Development, concurred with
Representative Petersen that the bill will not change how the
library currently accepts and distributes documents. She said
Libraries, Archives & Museums is required by statute to receive
four copies, but often requests eight copies for each of the
eight depository libraries around the state. She said in
addition to being available at the Alaska State Library, reports
are also available at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, the
University of Alaska Anchorage, the Anchorage Public Library,
and the Library of Congress.
MS. THIBODEAU said electronic copies are saved by Libraries,
Archives & Museums; therefore, a patron whose local library did
not have a copy of a report could ask for an electronic copy to
be sent. She said black and white copies are affordable for the
library, which in most cases provides them at no cost, unless
the job is extensive. She said color copies are expensive, and
currently there is no color copier on site; however, Libraries,
Archives & Museums has a color scanner. She stated, "The idea
that ... things would be reproducible in black and white and
still be sensible is really attractive to us."
8:52:50 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG suggested a delayed effective date on
the bill to allow agencies to change their formatting. He asked
Ms. Thibodeau for feedback.
8:53:56 AM
MS. THIBODEAU said the State Library has a program for
delivering materials to those places that don't have libraries,
through a regional services program. She mentioned an
interlibrary loan system, which can be used to get materials
from one library to another across the state.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN indicated that a librarian from
Ketchikan had expressed concern about the color printing, but
not about distribution, and Representative Johansen reiterated
that he thinks the agencies will be able to present material
that will be acceptable for distribution through the existing
network.
8:56:36 AM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON said she does not see a need for a
delayed timeline.
8:57:11 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON expressed concern that agencies are not as
responsive as desired, and he recommended that the committee
include a requirement in the bill that agencies make their
reports discernible when printed in black and white.
8:59:11 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said he understands what Representative
Seaton is saying, but has more faith that the departments will
adjust.
8:59:55 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG confirmed that he had removed his
objection to the motion to adopt Amendment 1d. There being no
further objection, it was so ordered.
9:00:50 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN moved to adopt Amendment 1e, which read
as follows [original punctuation provided]:
Page 2, line 6:
Delete "sections 44.99.360 - 44.99.390,"
Insert "AS 44.99.360 - 44.99.390,"
There being no objection, Conceptual Amendment 1e was adopted.
9:01:14 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN moved to adopt Amendment 2, to delete
Section 1 of HB 182.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN stated an objection for the purpose of
discussion.
9:01:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER requested an explanation of the adopted
Amendment 1b from Mr. Birnbaum.
MR. BIRNMAUM clarified that Amendment 1b would not bring about a
substantive change.
9:03:06 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN restated his motion to adopt Amendment 2
and his subsequent objection for the purpose of discussion. He
said Amendment 2 would delete Section 1 of HB 182, which would
remove the short title of the bill. He offered his
understanding that Representative Gruenberg does not like short
titles. He removed his objection. There being no further
objection, Amendment 2 was adopted.
9:03:30 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 3,
to delete the word "annual" everywhere it appears in HB 182.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER noted that Conceptual Amendment 3 would
also change the adopted Amendment 1d.
CHAIR LYNN asked if there was any objection to the motion to
adopt Conceptual Amendment 3. There being none, it was so
ordered.
9:03:55 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 4,
to include the Alaska Permanent Fund and the Alaska Housing
Finance Corporation on page 2, line 9.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN objected for the purpose of discussion.
He said Representative Gruenberg requested the addition of the
Permanent Fund Corporation and the Alaska Housing Finance
Corporation to the list of state agencies.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN removed his objection. There being no
further objection, Conceptual Amendment 4 was adopted.
9:05:10 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said he made a commitment to
Representative Gruenberg to consider the time it will take
lawyers to revise the language throughout statute. He said he
does not want to downplay Representative Seaton's previous
comments, and will look for ways to improve the bill, but said
he would like to see the bill move out of committee today.
9:06:09 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON clarified that he had no intention of
holding the bill up, but said he would like some language added
on page 1, line 11, clarifying that "accessible to the public"
means legible in black and white print.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said he will work on that.
9:07:52 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN, in response to Representative
Gruenberg, said he is willing to consider adding an extended
effective date.
9:08:58 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER said he believes the bill sponsor wants to
enhance reporting, not minimize it. He acknowledged that paper
copies of reports take up space. He said he would like to see a
comprehensive list of all available reports shown on the Alaska
State Legislature's BASIS web site. He said he does not want
agencies to slack off on reporting.
9:10:12 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to report HB 182, as amended, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN objected to comment. He questioned if
the library has the ability to have a single repository.
9:10:54 AM
MS. THIBODEAU said the Alaska State Library catalog does a
"beautiful job" of those listings, by year.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER said he also would like such a listing in
BASIS, perhaps just a link to the Alaska State Library catalog.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN said the legislature has the capability
of including anything on BASIS that it wants there.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN removed his objection to the motion to
move HB 182, as amended, out of committee. There being no
further objection, CSHB 182(STA) was reported out of the House
State Affairs Standing Committee.
9:12:25 AM
The committee took an at-ease from 9:12 a.m. to 9:18 a.m.
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